Welcome to the forum acrifthen. It's a shame that church security teams are needed but it's a sign of the times. I don't have an Echelon so I can't be much help in what loads seem to work well through them. Hopefully someone will be along that can better assist. I don't believe in a stressful, chaotic situation such as an active shooter in church that anyone will be able to shoot the center out. One would do well to keep rounds in a 6" ring at 7 yards, unless your highly trained, experienced and extremely cool and collected. Practice as much as possible and use a round in which your comfortable shooting and confident will perform the task.

 

While it is true that there will be no situation in a defensive situation that one will be able to "shoot the center out of", practice does make perfect. I've shot competitively with IPSC in the past and gone through challenging "active shooter" training courses, and being as accurate as possible put me at the top of those classes. My issue here is that I have fortunately in the past stumbled immediately upon rounds that work great in my EDCs. This is kind of a new animal for me. I'll try new loads one box at a time time till I find a sweet spot. I know load variances make a HUGE difference in rifles, I'm just guessing/hoping that I find one for the Echelon soon. I love the gun itself with the very cool features. I'm motivated to make it work.

 

At 7 yards there is no way that with one pistol you shoot out the centre and the Echelon not. So using i found the difference in 135 or 125, 115 at any distance there is little to no difference. .I assume the Echelon has no adjustable sights? So i assume the sights on the Echelon are OUT. If there is NO decent group then i assume the fault lies in the Echelon pistol. I have shot thousands of rounds of each of the above weights through a CZ, Sp01 and 2 and my XD, even at 10 yards almost zero variation.

 

His difference is going to be trigger control, I'll bet a million rupies on it.

 

Thank you for your response! I'll keep working at it!

 

124's are less snappy than your average 115.

 

I have also shoot IPSC and have for thirty odd years in all divisions. Good pistols well made like CZ and many others must and do shoot great groups at distances of 25 yards and more. A nice looking production division pistol, or production optic. I am still a fan of metal frame pistols, reduces muzzle flip. Best of luck.

 

Please keep us informed as to the results of the various rounds you try in the Echelon. Hopefully you will hit that sweet spot soon.

 

You may want to consider staying with the 115 gr. bullets due to the crowd enviroment you will be shooting in. Most 115 gr. HP 9mm bullets will penetrate about 13 inches of ballistic gel. As you get up to 124 to 147 gr. penetration jumps to 17-19 inches penetration. Last thing you will will want is complete pass though that hits a innocent church member.

 

I recommend going to 90 grain or 68 grain speciality ammo after you get your pistol sorted.

Look into Underwood's offerings.

 

Handgun Self-Defense Ammunition - Ballistic Testing Data (luckygunner.com)

Here's a comprehensive test I've referred to in the past. It's somewhat dated given the new rounds available these days, but it still lists a number of currently available rounds. The Echelon will have a longer barrel so the results will probably be a little different.

 

Any person including Police and or security services must at all time be responsible for where they use firearms for whatever reason as to the consequence of a projectile striking an unintended object. Know what is behind the object to are shooting at. Take that brief moment.

 

I've only shot 100 rounds through my Echelon, due to the fact that our club (outdoors) closes when the snow starts to fly. I shot 115 grain and 124 grain FMJ through it. The pistol functions reliably, no problems. I expect a break in period, and the accuracy was OK, I thought it was "Glock like". I find my Sigs to be more accurate, but that might just be me.

 

Some of it may be trigger pull. I have several Sigs, Kimber 1911’ and a CZ Shadow II and an Echelon. Stock I shot the Echelon the worst, but after a Powder River trigger it’s on par. For example trigger pull on my Sigs are right at 4lb or less. The CZ has a 3lb single action. The Echelon was 5.5 factory and is now 4lb and crisper. Trigger pull makes a lot of difference in grouping.

 

Most if not all firearm manufactures ensure that pistols have a very high Lbs trigger pull, the exception being pistols for sporting shooters competitions and even they are higher than need be. Most production pistols run at 8 or more lbs double action pull so that a new, nervous police officer or security when under stress and has a drawn firearm it is not discharged accidentally. We reduce trigger pull by changing (hammer/main) springs or trigger kits. All my pistols in double action run at near 3 lbs and that is fine. Many IPSC shooters in open division use a trigger pull of 1 lb or even less, with few if any accidental discharges, but depending on the capabilities of the seasoned shooter. So for a new shooter, or new pistol a strong trigger pull could affect the intended shot placement. It may also be some of the following.

 

Welcome to the forum, Andy!

Trying to find a load that one likes and trusts can be frustrating, as we all know! GIVEN THAT YOU CAN SHOOT, IF YOU FIND YOU CAN'T GET DECENT GROUPS WITH YOUR ECHELON, IT MIGHT BE THE GUN! Usually it's the shooter, most often the grip or trigger pull, but "lemon" barrels do happen.

Maybe see if a few friends can shoot your Echelon well. That would be a good test. If 3 people who usually shoot well cannot shoot a specific gun well, then it's probably the gun.

Regarding use in a church--or any crowd--I agree with Bob's suggestion to use 115 gr. JHP to minimize unwanted penetration!

Maybe try Speer Gold Dots, Federal HST, and Sig V Crown in 115 gr JHP if you have not yet.

For what it's worth, I always carry a micro 9 or sub compact 9 in church (and I'm in church 6 days a week).
I practice most with what I carry, and even when I'm focusing on revolvers or rifles on a particular range visit, I always run a couple mags through the gun I'm carrying that day (either a Hellcat or a Glock 26). Consequently, I now shoot my Hellcat and Glock 26 better than my bigger 9s.

On Sundays I always carry a bigger mag for back up and keep the standard 10 or 11 rd. mag in the gun, with one a rd. in the chamber.

 

You won’t know the answer until you try different weights - that’s what I always do with a new gun. The gun is broken in, so You’ll know after very few rounds. Then you you need to decide if the cost/benefit works.

If it must shoot your current load, and only that load to some standard you have in mind, you already have your answer, don’t you? Not what I would do with a “gun I love….”. I’d find what it likes.

 

Okay I'll weigh in. I LOVE my Echelon. Everybody who has tried it has hit tight groups. 115 or 124, no difference. The REALITY is the trigger sucks. In fact I have not shot a SA striker fire that has a trigger that impresses me. In shooting it is Barrel, trigger and sights. That is where your $$ should go.

That being said the powder river precision trigger upgrade changed my Echelon like day and night. Mine might be lighter than others prefer (sub 4#) but the pre-travel, break and post travel are awesome.

So assuming you aren't using sub grade ammo, you might try improving the trigger before blaming ammo.

 

Okay I'll weigh in. I LOVE my Echelon. Everybody who has tried it has hit tight groups. 115 or 124, no difference. The REALITY is the trigger sucks. In fact I have not shot a SA striker fire that has a trigger that impresses me. In shooting it is Barrel, trigger and sights. That is where your $$ should go.

That being said the powder river precision trigger upgrade changed my Echelon like day and night. Mine might be lighter than others prefer (sub 4#) but the pre-travel, break and post travel are awesome.

So assuming you aren't using sub grade ammo, you might try improving the trigger before blaming ammo.

I used a prp in one of my XDMs. They really do improve the trigger. For my HellCat I went with Mcarbo.