+p

Discussion in 'Springfield Armory M1911' started by nolabrian83, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    +p or +p+ ...Would Springfield 1911's be considered rated for hotter than normal rounds?
     
  2. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    With the caveat that SA will advise you that the guns should never be loaded beyond SAAMI specs, exactly as I do, the answer is yes and yes.

    There are two possible failure modes. One is that a barrel obstruction will cause the chamber pressure to rise precipitately and blow up the chamber portion of the barrel because it is much thinner than the rifled portion. The other is that excessive headspace will allow the round to back out of the chamber exposing an excessive amount of cartridge at ignition, resulting in a blowout near the base of the case. In 45 acp this is a much more energetic failure than the corresponding failure of a 9mm, being proportional in available energy to case volume (a factor nearly 2 to 1).

    Assuming that the throat on your chamber has not been cut beyond spec, and that headspace is also within spec, and your brass is shiny and new, full case charges of any but the fastest powders are not likely to create catastrophic results. I have often loaded 6 grains of Bullseye under a 200gr roundnose bullet - A nearly full case of fast powder.

    As for the general strength of the SA frame and slide, they are among the small number recommended for the 460 Rowland conversion, which is little more than a slightly lengthened 45ACP case loaded to 40,000 psi.

    Folks who load pistols to unsafe levels work up carefully, and watch for bulged cases and a sensation of "knocking" when the slide comes back, indicating the need for a heavier spring. This is a deadly art that should not be attempted by new reloaders, or those unwilling to lose fingers in the pursuit of knowledge.
     

  3. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    so basically what I'm receiving from you is that I just purchased a nearly indestructible pistol considering it's built to handle 45 ACP and I'm shooting a mere 9mm... I've never really been much of a plus P kind of person I truly think any round it's all about shot placement however a 9mm is more than substantial considering my needs... However it's a bit of a ego thing to know that I have such a quality gun that I can chamber plus P ammunition now without a worry... I'm a tad OCD and I like things right as well as perfect and I'm looking for something that's going to last me a lifetime truly... You are very knowledgeable in fact I need to go back to the drawing board and learn some of these terminology... But like I say if I am interpreting you correctly I basically bought a very solid tough pistol considering its underpowered for its design?
     
  4. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Yes. And yes, you are OCD in exactly the same way as my friend John. He asks the same question 3 times too, fortunately these days I'm long on patience, thanks to excellent psychiatric medication :D
     
  5. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    :) thanks a lot lol I just couldn't quite understand the terminology I'm still new I'm trying though thanks for bearing with me I'm about to go field strip it wipe off the old grease and put a fresh coat it feels so smooth when I greased the rails...
     
  6. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Sorry, I am forced to use the precise terminology for fear of getting into language wars, which I have no stomach for. I am actually not an expert, I am a journeyman of sorts, since I only just began accepting pay for my gunsmithing work at the princely rate of $10/hour. About what I think my labor is worth.
     
  7. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    I totally understand I'm just merely using this as a tool to learn as well as to get information... I've seen on other forums where people argue and it just seems like such a waste of time on both sides but thank you again and I'm sure I'll be asking you some more questions pretty soon
     
  8. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    I found my way here by accident after getting tossed out of another forum for saying that gunbroker.com was a den and a breeding ground for thieves and liars. Apparently that struck too close to the bone to be let pass.

    You will find that all the argument that happens here is pure sham. We just try to have a good time between trips to the range. I think that what makes this forum different is that everybody here just loves to shoot, and cares more about shooting guns than petting and polishing "safe queens".

    Forum regulars will be thinking I must have struck my head on a bullet press, but the truth is, I've been watching Deadwood, and the ridiculous way that the characters all speak has got caught in my fingers.
     
  9. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    It really helps a newbie such as myself having people like you to ask questions and I sure do appreciate it
     
  10. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    so may I ask plus p is not Saami rated?
     
  11. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    I was under the impression + P was still on the high end of the chart but yet still rated and plus P plus was off of the chart
     
  12. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    I don't know if it's just me but it seems that Springfield has tighter tolerances then the Kimber and sig
     
  13. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Under pressure from ammo makers, SAAMI allowed for +P for 9mm, 45acp, and 38 Special. All these rounds are over 100 years old, and can be chambered in guns that are old and fragile. SAAMI states that +P ammo is only marginally safe in those guns. The pressure levels for +P are typically only about 10% over standard.

    +P+ is generally understood to refer to maximum (sub-proof) loads in standard cases. The designation arose as modern guns made with properly heat-treated quality steel became more common. Commercial +P+ ammunition is 30%-40% over standard pressure (A "blue pill", or "proof load" being 50% over pressure). All SA guns are able to withstand +P+ pressures, though SA would never condone it.

    Due to our litigious nature, the manufacturers of truly battleship tough guns (Ruger Redhawk and Blackhawk, BFR, Freedom Arms) state, for example, that their 45LC revolvers should not be loaded above the SAAMI limit of 14,000psi - But they are commonly loaded to 30,000 psi! The 44 magnum models of those guns can be loaded with any combination of lead and powder that can be stuffed into a cartridge without reaching dangerous pressure (Assuming the chambers and bore are scrupulously clean and undamaged, and your brass is new and not mistreated). These guns will all fail by jamming up before any metal starts flying.
     
  14. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Kimber and Sig, through the implementation of infinitely many small cost-cutting measures, have become unknown quantities about whose guns little can be said with confidence.

    SA chambers are typically somewhat oversized. This is intentional and is done to insure reliable feeding when the gun is dirty.

    Nearly all modern 1911's have oversized chambers. You can see the evidence (on 45 acp brass) of this in the form of a shiny silvery residue on the sides of your spent brass. This is evidence of vaporised lead blowing back past what is supposed to be the seal between the chamber and brass. Loads in the 20,000 psi range will seal correctly and will be found to be vastly more accurate than lower (normal) pressure rounds that exhibit lead erosion.
     
  15. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    I totally do not understand what you are trying to say I was simply trying to say that the frame to slide fit and finish is very tight the tolerances are close...the only thing about my Springfield that I noticed is that the grip safety has a rattle to it almost like a baby's rattle but other than that the gun is extremely tight
     
  16. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    And all that I've ever heard of that plus P as well as plus p + office Lee speeds up the where process on your pistol so I'm simply wondering if I fire a hundred possibly 200 rounds to ensure proper function before carrying those type of rounds well I destroy my gun
     
  17. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Grip safety rattle is normal.
     
  18. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    You can fire thousands of them and the gun will not loosen up.
     
  19. Geezer

    Geezer New Member

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    Today's +P is like standard loads form the 1970's and 1980's....only weaker.
     
  20. nolabrian83

    nolabrian83 New Member

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    Ok now I can understand that language thanks pokute and geezer... I usually try to reason everything out and I figure if any gun is good enough to fire such a round with a higher cartridge pressure it would definitely be an all metal 1911 and on top of that it's a Springfield I think I might try some out and carry that as my defense round