Mim parts?

Discussion in 'Springfield Armory M1911' started by drillah, May 31, 2014.

  1. drillah

    drillah New Member

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    Recently bought a full stainless loaded full size 1911A1. I love it and it shoots great. I've replaced the two piece guide rod with a one piece from Cylinder & Slide and that's all I've done.
    Was shooting a steel match today and talking with another Springfield fan he mentioned that there are some MIM parts in the gun. He told me a story with his Springfield about how the slide stop broke and allowed the whole slide to come right off.
    Are there MIM parts on the Springfield 1911A1 full stainless?

    Thanks,
    MIke
     
  2. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Okay, I'll bite. I'm a metallurgist, so if anyone disagrees, too bad. There are MIM parts. Well, what does that mean to you? To me, it means that there are parts that if they were forged they would cost too much to make, and if they were machined, they would be prone to deformation during heat-treating and have sub-critical cracks at stress risers. Back in ancient times we called these "MIM" parts "sintered", and we were duly impressed by the wonderful homogeneity and freedom from voids that they exhibited.

    All my 1911's sport EGW parts because the style and finish is beyond reproach, and because they sell oversize parts that I can fit. But I know that these parts are not inherently better than the factory MIM parts. I would never run anything but an EGW hard sear in any 1911, because they are made with a degree of care not seen on any other part made by anyone for a 1911 - And after thousands of rounds they still look nearly perfect, where others appear worn and chipped. C&S throws their sears into a 5 gallon bucket at some point late in processing, and as a result they are usually sold damaged - The damage can be felt with a fingernail, and seen with a microscope. Same is true of many of their hammers. Not all at C&S is up to the standard of Bill Laughridge's work (I've seen a gun he built, and it was a work of art).

    The guy reporting the broken slide stop has a bigger problem than MIM parts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014

  3. drillah

    drillah New Member

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    Thanks for the detailed response pokute.
     
  4. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    If you have any specific questions about a particular part, please feel free to ask. I am only a very amateur gunsmith, but I think I understand the 1911 fairly well. You should read Volume 1 of Kuhnhausen before replacing ANY parts on a 1911, and make sure that you understand how the part does it's job before removing any metal OR installing an oversize part that damages your pistol. For example, sometimes a one piece full-length guide rod is slightly too long and makes turning the bushing difficult, even to the point of damaging the bushing.

    I hope I didn't sound like I was bashing C&S, I use their hammers in several of my guns. They make a very nice beveled spur hammer that is designed for a "rolling" release. I have to reshape the hooks for the crisp release that I prefer, but the hammer is otherwise one of the best looking out there - And C&S's heat treatment is top-notch. I just wish they would take care not to ding up the parts before they package them.
     
  5. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    Hi Im Toolmanuno I used to work in powdered metal {14 yrs}so I understand metallurgy. I can tell you this powdered metal does not take a beating or pounding .I BOUGHT S.A. Range officer my question to you is this I m thinking of putting in a Schumann barrel AND POSSIBLY A EGW ANGLE BORE BUSHING? YOUR THOUGHTS PLZ? Reason for Schumann barrel is because they claim <1'' at 50 yrds also because of 24 twist rate if not Schumann then Kart plz reply Sincerely Toolmanuno
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
  6. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    im actually thinking about Doug Koenig hammer egw sear & disconnector
     
  7. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    I think EGW makes the Doug Koenig hammer. It should be a drop-in with the EGW sear.
     
  8. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Welcome toolmanuno!

    Powder processed metal can be as good or bad as the processing. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with powder processed parts. The biggest contributors to bad powder processing are oxidation and other contamination. To do the process well is very difficult.

    Schuemann barrels are fabulous. I would definitely go with the EGW angle-bore bushing because you will save a few steps in the job of fitting, and fitting the Schuemann barrel could prove to be quite a task.

    Kart barrels are also excellent. However, I was too stupid to understand how to fit one using the Kart pad system. I also mis-cut the hood and had to have it welded up. Of course, I could have messed up a Schuemann barrel just as easily ;)

    The SA barrels are fitted very well, but the chambers are on the large size for the sake of reliability. Cutting your own chamber on a Schuemann, Kart, or Bar-Sto is the ideal way to go. With Manson reamers, it's surprisingly easy. EGW angle-bore bushings are very nearly drop-in if you order the right size.
     
  9. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    hello pokute well I worked for keystone powdered metal until 8 yrs ago and made & did quality control from molding, sintering, heat treat, induction harden and for the auto industry main problems were contamination, cracks, etc. I took my springfield totally apart last night and jjjjjjeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz the mim trigger, sear, disconnector etc looked like it was made in Taiwan then painted awful!!!!!!!!!!sure glad I got on here then brownells and ordered quality machined from barstock parts as well as going to egw web site and ordering from them too. thank you for your help. i really think I can out do a baer, Wilson, brown etc with the same parts they use at a fraction of the cost literally.why so? because in my younger year I beat out clark custom bullseye gun with a Thompson auto ordnance with just a trigger job and millett sights! hit a 92 out of 100 beat everybody lol with a $400.00 auto ordnance lol!!!! im gonna do it again with a springfield that's parkerized!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Glad to hear we have another builder! Wait 'til you see the finish on the EGW parts! The first things I do on every pistol is an EGW angle-bore bushing and an EGW sear. I also stone the hammer hooks to 90 degrees and shorten them as needed.

    You may want to go to a longer link with the angle-bore bushing.

    Are you a machinist?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  11. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    hello well im going to measure everything first and be sure everything is in spec one step at a time. ok yes im going to get wilsons assortment pack of barrel links. sad to say im not a machinist. but I can run a zeiss coordinate measure machine it gets down to .00001 of an inch should be accurate enough lol!
     
  12. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    It would be very interesting to find out how the SA sear deviates from the EGW sear!

    I work with a laser interferometer that can measure down to 0.00000000000000000000008

    It isn't much use for anything but measuring gravitational distortion of local space-time. And it will not fit in the back of a pickup truck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  13. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    ok I weighed the parts on my grain scale the first batch of cylinder & slide were much much better rc hardness test papers & all. ya cant beat machined parts from bar stock tomorrow I will get the Wilson parts hammer sear disconnector then fri I should have the egw parts im going to evaluate them all then decide.i also ordered a machined from bar stock ejector & extractor now im thinkin what the hell why not put an ed brown memory groove beaver tail in while im at it?or would a wilsons be better?
     
  14. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Oh wow! I can't wait to see your summary of the differences between the parts!

    Well, of course I would say the EGW beavertail. HOWEVER, there is something else:

    http://texasgunparts.com/products/Kings/Kings.aspx

    Those are vintage King's parts. The original high-hold grip safety, known as the whale tail. They were manufactured to the design of the original Jim Hoag brazed-up whale tail.

    You will have to call Mike to figure out which one to get.
     
  15. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    hmmmmmm I forgot about Kings but I remembered clarks.
     
  16. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    I think Clark and Hoag were shooting together when they worked out the Whale Tail. Hoag was the original gunsmith at Kings, and while he was there, he made the whale tails by brazing two pieces to a govt safety (That's what he told me). Later on, Kings manufactured the whale tail, with a lot of them being turned out by Swenson's shop, among others.

    I have a little collection of King's Whale Tails. I guess I need to take a picture!
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  17. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    yes plz do take a pic. ok drum rollllllllllllllllllllll ..............ready.............wilsons ultra light hammer200.77 egw hammer 160.45 cly& slide 169.9 Wilson sear 40.52 egw sear40.82 cyl & slide sear 30.51 egw dis 30.50 c& slide 30.82 sa parts= hammer160.94 sear 30.08 disconnect 20.98 the sa mim parts look like something that came outta china wif purdy paint while the others looked professionally made here in the good ol usa via edm wire cut from bar stock
     
  18. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Funny that the wilson ultra light was heavier! Two measurements that would be very interesting are the depth of the hammer notch and the overall length of the sear (longest measurement - tip to extreme corner of base).
     
  19. toolmanuno

    toolmanuno New Member

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    hello well I got my gun back today from 'smith didn't have tools to do the ambi safety well my trigger pull is 3.5 with cyl & slide parts I had him install hi viz green front sight as well. next is to get the national match barrel (either kart or schuemann) then get it installed... this pistolsmith leads me to believe he aint got what it takes technically. why ? hhhhhhhmmm well I asked him if he wanted me to bring the barrel link assortment pack ?????????? mmmmmmmmm no don't need it ... ok what about egw angle bushing...........never herd of 'em ok dude thanx see ya later I ran out the door !!!
     
  20. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Unfortunately, the 1911 is so different from any other gun that 'smithing experience on anything else doesn't translate to the 1911. 1911 smiths get a lot of experience with stones, files, and reamers - And apply them to places that would destroy any other gun!

    A longer link works very well in tandem with the angle-bored bushing. The angle-bored bushing increases the upper lug engagement, and the longer link keeps things from binding at link-down. Possibly it just does the same thing as adding some vertical clearance to the pin hole... This is one of those places where I can't quite get my head around it.