First Range Outing

Discussion in 'Springfield Armory M1911' started by Willieboy, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. Willieboy

    Willieboy Angry Old White Guy

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    I took my new Range Officer Compact and my new EMP to the range today for the first time. Both are 9mm guns. Through each gun I fired 150 rounds of Federal 115 grain FMJ and 50 rounds of 147 grain Remington Golden Saber hollow points. Happily both guns functioned flawlessly. I shot at targets at the 7 yard line.

    After shooting lighter weight Glocks for many years, the recoil in the ROC was really negligible. It was a joy to shoot through the first 150 rounds and I thought the accuracy was very good. Then, during the first magazine of the 147 grain Golden Sabers, the fiber optic piece of the front sight took its leave. I shot the remaining rounds using the front sight as a peep sight. It worked okay, I guess. I really dislike the fiber optic sight on the ROC and will soon be sending the slide off to Novaks to have some low mount tritium sights installed.

    For the ROC, I have five magazines, the two it came with, two I ordered from Mec-Gar and one I actually won in a random drawing from a MEC-Gar contest. All the magazines worked fine too.

    All in all, I really like the ROC design, i.e., the Officers size frame and ~ Commander length barrel. The gun conceals well and shoots great.

    The EMP was great from beginning to end and just as accurate as the ROC despite its shorter barrel length. Recoil with the EMP was stouter, as would be expected. It was actually kind of unpleasant and at the end of the shooting session, my trigger finger was sore. Again though, the gun functioned flawlessly.

    I am not as fond of the EMP design, with its shorter barrel and longer grip section. I have only the three magazines that came with the gun and two of them are off being modified to remove the base pads and, I believe, shorten the magazine by one round. These shortened magazines will be carried in the gun and I'll have four more magazines with the base pad. Two of the four I'll carry as spares. I'm talking a lot more about magazines than I intended, rambling even. Anyway, rambling on, I'll rotate two sets of three magazines each. One in the gun with no base pad and two spares with the base pads. Got it?
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  2. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Excellent range report! But 9mm... Meh.

    Anyway, I tried a fiber sight once, and the first thing I noticed was that it shot higher as the light level increased, so it's purely for closing your eyes and shooting. Having it fall off was a good omen.

    I'm wondering about the sore trigger finger. The triggers on both guns should be relatively light (certainly less than a Glock), and if you are using the trigger properly, your trigger finger should be unaffected by recoil.

    First off, you can grip those guns very lightly - They don't recoil much more than a compact 22. Second, be sure you are pressing the trigger with the pad of your finger, not pulling with the first joint. When you grip, your strong hand holds the gun firmly, but not so hard that you find yourself readjusting your grip to relieve the pressure, and acts to control the rotational component of the recoil from the bullet being spun-up by the rifling. Your weak hand is solely to control muzzle rise, which it can do without any grip to speak of, just wrapped around the fingers of your strong hand, and with your thumb touching the slide release flat to counteract trigger jabbing. Keep your arms slightly bent, not jammed straight out. That ridiculous straight-arm hold is for competition only. You want to learn to get rapid recovery shots in a straight line vertically up from your initial hold. At 7 yards you should be able to do that shooting backwards through your legs.

    I recommend that you do your range practice at a greater distance than you ever expect to engage a hostile target - Muscle memory without highly developed eye/hand coordination isn't worth much. The combat instructors nowadays are a bunch of idiots and liars. I only recommend Bill Jordan's book "No Second Place Winner" - The true words of a true master man killer. All other combat/tactical books are trash written to sell bling.

    Tritium sights are a waste of money. They do nothing for you under any circumstances. The early California Highway Patrol guns had a really bitchin' self luminous front ramp that used radium and an orange phosphor - Bright as 2 suns and it was in the right place for rapid pointing. But it caused cancer.

    I coach pistol shooting. I don't coach for any particular purpose, I coach for accuracy. I've never failed to get anybody on the gongs at 50 yards, and I've taught teenage girls weighing under 100 pounds to shoot 45 from the 1911.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015

  3. Willieboy

    Willieboy Angry Old White Guy

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    I noticed I was pulling the trigger at the first joint and that's where it's sore. Should I consider a longer trigger? Also, I don't recall any discomfort from the ROC, only the EMP.

    Longer range sounds like good advice. I'll try it next time out.
     
  4. 0119

    0119 New Member

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  5. CPTKILLER

    CPTKILLER Senior Member

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    Do get a snap cap and practice your grip and trigger pull.
     
  6. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Early on, I tried longer triggers, and thought they were "the right thing", until I tried a shorter trigger... Now I tend to run WWII triggers that are very short. Try a couple different triggers. Flat faced triggers are a good choice. You want it to be comfortable to have the first pad of your finger resting flat on the trigger face without "reaching".

    The EMP recoils more. By pulling with the joint, you were coupling your trigger finger to the recoil impulse, hence the irritation. I often shoot an AMT backup, which uses a hellish trigger spring to intentionally couple the trigger finger to the recoil - I once ran 150 rounds through it, and it took weeks for my finger to recover from the deep tissue damage.
     
  7. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    YES! Put a post-it on the wall with a little dot in the middle, and practice snapping without having the muzzle move. It's more difficult than it sounds.
     
  8. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    I appreciate it, and I welcome you to the forum... But have you read Jordan's Book? Since it's in the public domain and free, there's no excuse for anybody not to read it. Colonel BJ makes Mas Ayoob look like a... Well, you get the idea.
     
  9. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    My best student, demonstrating a perfect thumbs-forward hold, showing that the 1911 is a very adaptable weapon:
     

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  10. Willieboy

    Willieboy Angry Old White Guy

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    Pokute, regarding tritium sights, I find them indispensable. For years, I shot a Combat Commander (steel frame) in .45acp using King-Tappan Combat Sights. They were great sights at the range or during the day. At night though, in my bedroom, I could not see them.

    I know you don't frequently carry or worry too much about security at home. I however, I grew up on Chicago's South Side and what I experienced, taught me that my gun's number one purpose was to defend my home, my family, and myself. My family was the victim of one home invasion. Three of my family members were victims of violent street crimes, the houses on both sides of ours, were burglarized, while the people were in their beds asleep.

    I think night sights have their place.
     
  11. 0119

    0119 New Member

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    Ayoob denounces the 1911 in favor for his 'sponsor' glock......nuff said!
    I read Jordan, Skelton, Taylor and Cooper over and over in the 80's at the start of my l.e. career. There are no real men involved in the firearms media anymore.
     
  12. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    @Willieboy - You need a dog!!! I recommend:
     

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  13. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    We've kept pitbulls for the last 25 years. We leave the front door open all night, hoping that somebody will give the dog a little extra exercise.
     
  14. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Just found this online: http://darkcanyon.net/skeeter_skelton.htm

    Lots of terrific articles reprinted there for free. Skeeter could see through bull**** like nobody else.

    Hey, the forum wiped my bull's bottom!
     
  15. 0119

    0119 New Member

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    Thanks I got that site kept to favorites! I lost my old Shooting Times and Skeeter Skelton on Handguns during Hurricane Charlie. Recently I found a old copy on sale on Amazon for like 80 bucks. Crazy money for a two decade old magazine!
     
  16. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    I've held off on buying Skeeter's books until I can find them for something less than a fortune!
     
  17. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    By the way, just because I don't carry doesn't mean I haven't been in gunfights... I can hear folks rolling their eyes right now... No ,really! In 1982 I was working in Hollywood, and one day coming home from work, as I passed through an intersection I looked to my right, and in the middle of the street was a patrol car with two cops behind the doors with revolvers pointing at me - I looked to the left and there was a guy laying in the back of a van pointing a rifle at me. Fortunately no shots were exchanged as I passed between them. Another time, around 2000, I was driving through the (then notorious) intersection of Vendome and Marathon, when a white Ford cut me off to chase a brown Dodge - With the guys in the Ford shooting the whole time. Missed being between them by less than half a second. I pulled into a restaurant a few blocks later and told the Sargeant eating at the counter what I saw - He turned to me and said: "Can't you see I'm eating lunch?!" - Yes, I live in Rampart Division.

    During that particularly bad time, around 2000, we had "Neighborhood Watch" patrols with police escort. The worst one of all was (I kid you not) Sgt. Patty Gerst. One night she knocked a bottle of T-Bird out of a wino's hand with her gun. Another night (the night that put an end to her escort career), she confronted two pimps who immediately rounded on her - She pulled her gun and was just about to start blasting away in a crowd of Neighborhood Watch folks. The pimps laughed and walked away.

    Of course we later found out that most of the gang activity was due to the Rampart Division Crash Unit going rogue, causing the gangs to go into para-military mode. There's a neighborhood, part of Alvarado Terrace, that is still cordoned off with concrete barricades, where the police won't go. The Mara Salvatrucha run the area.
     
  18. Willieboy

    Willieboy Angry Old White Guy

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    I have a Rotweiller. She's a rescue and is most loyal. Very protective and a great watchdog.
     
  19. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Snicker snicker:
     

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  20. pokute

    pokute Sincere as a $5 funeral

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    Finally found adequately goofy Rottweiler:
     

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