[Calvert2812V]

Calvert2812V:
Brand new pistol - before going forward - dissemble pistol, detailed cleaning & lubricate. If malfunctions persist: change ammo, change magazine and lastly communicate with & return to Springfield, their customer service is peerless.
Regards/CClowers2

I disassembled and cleaned the gun, both before, and after I shot it. I think I am gonna try Winchester White Box next time, as it has been pretty reliable for me in other pistols. If that, and a different magazine don't do the trick, then yeah, it will likely be headed back to Springfield, unfortunately. Thanks for the help...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Any of the rounds hand loads? I have had the failure to go into battery on several occasions. Mine is the non CCC, the EMP 4 Lightweight Champion. I have had some serious jam-ups with cases that were not actually full length sized.
If this is not the case, proceed with the advice given above.

Nope, no hand loads. It was all factory-loaded PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ. Hopefully the rain will hold off long enough this weekend, and I can try different ammo, and a different mag...

 

[Calvert2812V]

I have the standard EMP4 Champion and the CCC models and both have been totally reliable. Just had the slide for the standard Cerakoted. Sure hope you get this figured out. Good luck!

Thanks man. It looks like you are one of the lucky ones, with your gun's reliability! Both guns look good, and I wouldn't mind to buy another variation, assuming that I can get my current one to be reliable, first...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Thanks for your input, guys. That is some good information, and things to think about.

A buddy of mine also told me to take a look at my bolt face. He mentioned that he had a Sig once that had a ridge on it, that he had to smooth down.

The pictures posted, are of my bolt face. I haven't had time to take the gun apart for a closer look, but from the looks of it, I have grooves towards the middle of the bolt face, and a small ridge out towards the edge.

My buddy also mentioned that it probably couldn't hurt to have where the firing pin comes through the bolt face relieved a little bit. We will see how the gun does with a different magazine, and different ammo, hopefully this weekend.

If I still have problems after another 50 or 100 rounds, it will be goin' back to Springfield.

 

[Calvert2812V]

If you notice in that failure to feed photo, the round is still sitting well below the magazine feed lips.

When the slide is forward, the bottom of the slide holds the top round in the magazine in a depressed position. So the top round is not sitting all the way up in the magazine as it would be when the magazine is not loaded in the gun. Then, when the slide cycles, the bottom of the slide moves clear of the top round and allows it to move up to the top of the magazine where it can be stripped off and moved into the chamber.

The same spring and follower that forces the top round into position, also forces the slide latch into the locked position after the last round is fired. So the failures in both these areas would point to a bad magazine.

The vertical scores on the breechface should not be a problem as long as there are no raised burrs or ridges extending above the surface. Likewise with the firing pin hole. If you have some type of tool with a sharp flat edge that will fit between the extractor and ejector, you can ride it along the breechface vertically to check for burrs. If any, they can be easily removed with a stone.

Springfield has a bad practice (in my opinion) of engraving the last three digits of the serial number on the bottom central rail of the slide. This can produce a roughness in the slide movement as the engraved stippling passes over the disconnector. This can also be smoothed out with a stone (if present).

To check, pull the hammer back and leave it cocked so as to not have to fight the hammer spring. The slide should move smoothly back and forth with just a minor "catch" as it passes over the disconnector. Should be no roughness.

Recoil springs can be a bit stiff initially, but should settle into a lower but stable tension.

Also "range" ammo tends to be a bit on the anemic side. If you couple that with maximum tension virgin springs and rough spots that managed to sneak past QC, they can all add up to failures.

Thanks for all of that good information/education! As far as magazines go, I'm going to assume the one I used was good, as it was brand new.

The breechface seems to have a slightly raised ridge on the slide stop side of the gun. Its hard to say for certain, but when I run a thumb tack across it horizontally, it catches. I can't say for sure, because the one groove butts up to where the possible ridge is. It is kind of hard to explain, so just check out the pictures again. It is either just catching in the groove, or hanging up when it tries to come up out of the groove, and runs into the ridge.

As far as the bottom on the central slide rail, it is fine. I found where they stippled the last three digits of the serial number there, and it is smooth as can be. I did, however, see another number stamped down lower in the slide, while observing the stippled number, and it hadn't been smoothed out. I didn't notice any roughness when pulling the slide back, but I did notice it catch as it moved past what I assume is the disconnector. That aspect seemed to be too "catchy" to me, before I had fired the gun, when I was trying to index the slide, so that I could remove the slide stop. Now that the gun has 150 rounds through it, that catchiness seems to have smoothed out a bit.

I don't plan on trying to smooth the breechface myself. I believe that is something that Springfield should be responsible for. I realize that is a fairly straight forward process. But with this gun being new, I feel like they should be the ones to make it right, especially considering the malfunctions that I have had with it, and the price.

 

[Calvert2812V]

As an update, I ran 100 more rounds through the gun today, with a new magazine. I had two malfunctions. Both were failures for the slide to go all the way into battery. I shot 50 rounds of Federal 115 grain FMJ, and 50 rounds of PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ. After having good reliability, with only one malfunction with the Federal rounds, and a new mag, I decided to try the PMC again. I had the same luck that I had with the Federal stuff. This leads me to believe that the original mag that I shot with is faulty, but I still had two more malfunctions with FMJ ammo. I am now 250 rounds in with the gun. I am still considering sending the gun back, because of the breechface, and the malfunctions experienced from what should be reliable ammo.

I would like to hear your opinions. Thanks!

 

[Calvert2812V]

When the slide fails to go into battery now, all that it takes, is a small nudge with your thumb, and it finishes chambering. I didn't examine how the cartridge looked at this point, because of how easily it was to remedy the problem.

I took the slide off, and put a round into position in6 the slide, like you had suggested. I tried both a live round, and an empty case. Neither were hard to move into position. The only thing that bothered me, was when the empty case was in position, the extractor pulled on it enough, that the round didn't sit all the way flush with the breechface. You should be able to see the daylight underneath of it in the picture. Where it was not sitting flush, was on the area of the breechface I was concerned with, where there is the vertical groove, and possible minute ridge. When I put the live round into position by hand, it appears to sit perfectly flush on the breechface.

At this point, I don't know whether to put another 100 rounds or so through it, and see what happens, or to give Springfield another call. Am I being too picky? I really do love this gun, but I don't want fear of unreliableness to be stuck in the back of my head.

 

[Calvert2812V]

I haven't had time to check and see if a live round falls into the chamber easily, or not, yet. But, based on all of your recommendations, I think I will give Springfield another call this week, and see what they have to say now. I hate to be without the gun for a month or so, but you really can't put a price on peace of mind...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Well, I gave Springfield a call. After explaining to them what I have expressed here, they want to have a look at the gun. So, I will let them have the pleasure of having it. I want to say that I feel like the gun will continue to improve, the more I shoot it. So part of me wants to continue to break it in on my own, and the other part says to let them have it back for a bit, since they are so willing to take it back in. I will get it sent out in a few days, and then play the waiting game. I will post back, after I get the gun back, etc.

 

[Calvert2812V]

Hopefully the will not keep it too long and you will be back shooting it before you know it. I sent my EMP 3 in for feed issues and they got it back to me fairly quickly.

Well, I got an email back from Springfield today, stating that my gun is fixed, and on its way back to me. They received it from me on Tuesday of this week, shipped it back out today, (Friday) and scheduled delivery on my end is Tuesday of next week. So, thats pretty quick!

The email said that they put in a 1911-A1 ejector pin, they drilled and pinned the ejector, they recut and polished the barrel ramp, and adjusted the extractor, followed up with a safety check. So, it seems like it needed more work than I had figured it would.

I wish they would have addressed the grooves on the breechface, but they mentioned nothing about it. So now I will play the waitin' game, and see how it turned out...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Well, I got the gun back Tuesday, and shot it Wednesday. I ran 50 rounds of PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ through it. I had three failures to go all the way into battery. I called Springfield up, and they said to send it back again, and sent me a shipping label. It will be next week before I can get it sent out. I'm just ready to be able to run an entire box of ammo through it, without having any malfunctions...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Sorry to hear that. I this point I would be pushing Springfield to replace your EMP 4 or at least planting the seed. If they resist I'd tell them they one more change to get it right and then you expect a replacement gun. I have put over 500 rounds through my EMP 4 without a single issue so your EMP should perform as well. Good luck!

We will see what happens after this trip back. I figure that if they can't get it to function correctly after its second trip back, then maybe I can explore other options. I would think that maybe they would go over it with more of a fine-toothed comb, this time. Maybe it is just an ammo thing, or maybe it just needs a stiffer recoil spring?? That will be for Springfield to decide. With that bein' said, I enjoy shootin' the gun enough, that I wouldn't mind to own another EMP in 9mm, as long as it functions properly...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Unreliable weapons are unacceptable. I get rid of them quickly.

I'm gonna give Springfield another chance. I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to make this EMP reliable. If I hated the gun, or if it was a carry gun, I would look for something else. Since I like the gun, and consider it as a range/plinking gun, I'm willing to be patient...

 

[Calvert2812V]

As an update, I sent the gun back out yesterday, and Springfield will get it tomorrow. Time to play the waitin' game...

 

[Calvert2812V]

I received an email today, letting me know that the gun is on it's way back from Springfield. They opened up the barrel throat this time. That was the only work performed to it, according to the invoice. I have heard that this can potentially make your group size a bit larger, but nothing major. But, if thats what it takes to make the gun run...

 

[Calvert2812V]

I got the gun back Tuesday the 11th, and just got around to shooting it tonight. I only had time to run 50 rounds of PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ through it.

I experienced two malfunctions. One was a failure to chamber, where basically only the nose of the bullet made it into the barrel. I had to eject the magazine, and then rack the slide, to clear this malfunction. And the other, was another failure of the slide to go all the way into battery, and I just had to tap the rear of the slide, for it to finish chambering.

It will probably be a couple weeks now, before I am able to contact Springfield, again, by phone. I guess that I would like to start hearing your opinions, at this point. Like I previously mentioned, they opened up the barrel throat this time, but they weren't able to fire the particular ammo that I am currently running through it. I continue to send the same original magazine that I have been using, back with the gun.

Needless to say, I am pretty bummed, and I can't even get FMJ ammo to reliably run through this gun, even after 350 rounds of my own shooting. I haven't even tried to run defensive loads through the gun yet, but I see no reason to, at this point.

 

[Calvert2812V]

My opinion is very simple. Replace the damn thing. I think you have been extremely patience and its now time for Springfield to stand behind their warranty. I would except nothing less.

I wouldn't even begin to know how replacing a firearm works, since I've never had to do it. I'm sure Springfield can tell me, but its ultimately up to them whether or not it needs/will be replaced. It makes me wonder if they destroy the gun, and issue you a new serial number, or make another new one, with the same number. ?? I'd be willing to bet that they will want me to send the gun back for a third time. If so, either the third time will be a charm, or I may have to explore other options...

 

[Calvert2812V]

I doubt they'd use the same number,probably just scrap it and send you another 1. But they'll probably not want to replace it so,you may have to ask. I'm sure if you'd say "I want a replacement 1 or a refund",that they'd realize you were very unhappy and do 1 or the other.

I'm thinking that if they want me to send the gun back again, that a full treatment from the custom shop shouldn't be too much to ask for, right? Such as a trigger job, etc.? If the gun still malfunctions after that, then maybe I should be looking to the replacement route? Just thinkin' outloud...

 

[Calvert2812V]

Well, I contacted Springfield this morning, and the gun is going back for the third time. I mentioned replacement, but wasn't offered it by them yet. I mentioned also smoothing out the action, and a trigger job, but the warranty only covers things that are wrong with the gun. Needless to say, I didn't try to argue with them. I just let them know my displeasure, and that if it doesn't run, after this trip back to them, that we can explore other options. I also mentioned that I would like the gun gone through with a fine-toothed comb this time. We will see what happens...