Some pistols are finicky about what ammo they'll cycle,I've had a few in the past.

 

Sorry to hear you are having issues with you EMP 4 CCC. I have put over 500 rounds through mine without a single hiccup. I always shoot 147 grain ammo and don't know if that makes any difference. Let us know how you make out the next time a the range. Good luck.

 

Calvert2812V:
Brand new pistol - before going forward - dissemble pistol, detailed cleaning & lubricate. If malfunctions persist: change ammo, change magazine and lastly communicate with & return to Springfield, their customer service is peerless.
Regards/CClowers2

 

Calvert2812V:
Brand new pistol - before going forward - dissemble pistol, detailed cleaning & lubricate. If malfunctions persist: change ammo, change magazine and lastly communicate with & return to Springfield, their customer service is peerless.
Regards/CClowers2

I disassembled and cleaned the gun, both before, and after I shot it. I think I am gonna try Winchester White Box next time, as it has been pretty reliable for me in other pistols. If that, and a different magazine don't do the trick, then yeah, it will likely be headed back to Springfield, unfortunately. Thanks for the help...

 

Any of the rounds hand loads? I have had the failure to go into battery on several occasions. Mine is the non CCC, the EMP 4 Lightweight Champion. I have had some serious jam-ups with cases that were not actually full length sized.
If this is not the case, proceed with the advice given above.

 

Any of the rounds hand loads? I have had the failure to go into battery on several occasions. Mine is the non CCC, the EMP 4 Lightweight Champion. I have had some serious jam-ups with cases that were not actually full length sized.
If this is not the case, proceed with the advice given above.

Nope, no hand loads. It was all factory-loaded PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ. Hopefully the rain will hold off long enough this weekend, and I can try different ammo, and a different mag...

 

My EMP4's

I have the standard EMP4 Champion and the CCC models and both have been totally reliable. Just had the slide for the standard Cerakoted. Sure hope you get this figured out. Good luck!

 

I have the standard EMP4 Champion and the CCC models and both have been totally reliable. Just had the slide for the standard Cerakoted. Sure hope you get this figured out. Good luck!

Checkout Stoner CNC for some awesome G-10 grips for your new CCC. I have them on mine and love the way they look and feel. I like them so much I bought two pair, one in black and grey and one in blue and black.

 

I have the standard EMP4 Champion and the CCC models and both have been totally reliable. Just had the slide for the standard Cerakoted. Sure hope you get this figured out. Good luck!

Thanks man. It looks like you are one of the lucky ones, with your gun's reliability! Both guns look good, and I wouldn't mind to buy another variation, assuming that I can get my current one to be reliable, first...

 

Sorry to hear about your EMP issue. Since you've already cleaned and lubed it, the easiest test would probably be to try a different mag. A damaged or not fully seated mag can cause a slide not to lock back, and of course a damaged mag can cause feeding issues.

For your sake I hope it's a mag issue!

115 grain MIGHT be too light for optimal break-in on an EMP. I don't own an EMP, but some new guns seem to prefer heavier ammo during break-in.

Good luck!

 

From your picture, it appears the load is "too light"....

What I mean by this is that the load does not generate enough force to "push" the slide back with enough force or velocity to allow the magazine to react. If the slide moves to slow or does not fully "retract", the mag spring will not push the follower upward fast enough which will cause the slide to start pushing the rear of the bullet too soon. The slide will catch the rear of the bullet and push forward before the mag follower is finished "seating" the bullet into the optimum angle or position. This will cause a jam that looks like what you are experiencing. Longer bullet "profiles", or shapes with long OAL ill increase this issue.

Several things can help this - switch to a slightly shorter and "hotter" load, or change to a different bullet shape (more rounded). Switch magazines to see if you have a weak spring (doubtful on a new pistol). And finally, polish the feed ramp a little.

 

Thanks for your input, guys. That is some good information, and things to think about.

A buddy of mine also told me to take a look at my bolt face. He mentioned that he had a Sig once that had a ridge on it, that he had to smooth down.

The pictures posted, are of my bolt face. I haven't had time to take the gun apart for a closer look, but from the looks of it, I have grooves towards the middle of the bolt face, and a small ridge out towards the edge.

My buddy also mentioned that it probably couldn't hurt to have where the firing pin comes through the bolt face relieved a little bit. We will see how the gun does with a different magazine, and different ammo, hopefully this weekend.

If I still have problems after another 50 or 100 rounds, it will be goin' back to Springfield.

 

If you notice in that failure to feed photo, the round is still sitting well below the magazine feed lips.

When the slide is forward, the bottom of the slide holds the top round in the magazine in a depressed position. So the top round is not sitting all the way up in the magazine as it would be when the magazine is not loaded in the gun. Then, when the slide cycles, the bottom of the slide moves clear of the top round and allows it to move up to the top of the magazine where it can be stripped off and moved into the chamber.

The same spring and follower that forces the top round into position, also forces the slide latch into the locked position after the last round is fired. So the failures in both these areas would point to a bad magazine.

The vertical scores on the breechface should not be a problem as long as there are no raised burrs or ridges extending above the surface. Likewise with the firing pin hole. If you have some type of tool with a sharp flat edge that will fit between the extractor and ejector, you can ride it along the breechface vertically to check for burrs. If any, they can be easily removed with a stone.

Springfield has a bad practice (in my opinion) of engraving the last three digits of the serial number on the bottom central rail of the slide. This can produce a roughness in the slide movement as the engraved stippling passes over the disconnector. This can also be smoothed out with a stone (if present).

To check, pull the hammer back and leave it cocked so as to not have to fight the hammer spring. The slide should move smoothly back and forth with just a minor "catch" as it passes over the disconnector. Should be no roughness.

Recoil springs can be a bit stiff initially, but should settle into a lower but stable tension.

Also "range" ammo tends to be a bit on the anemic side. If you couple that with maximum tension virgin springs and rough spots that managed to sneak past QC, they can all add up to failures.

 

If you notice in that failure to feed photo, the round is still sitting well below the magazine feed lips.

When the slide is forward, the bottom of the slide holds the top round in the magazine in a depressed position. So the top round is not sitting all the way up in the magazine as it would be when the magazine is not loaded in the gun. Then, when the slide cycles, the bottom of the slide moves clear of the top round and allows it to move up to the top of the magazine where it can be stripped off and moved into the chamber.

The same spring and follower that forces the top round into position, also forces the slide latch into the locked position after the last round is fired. So the failures in both these areas would point to a bad magazine.

The vertical scores on the breechface should not be a problem as long as there are no raised burrs or ridges extending above the surface. Likewise with the firing pin hole. If you have some type of tool with a sharp flat edge that will fit between the extractor and ejector, you can ride it along the breechface vertically to check for burrs. If any, they can be easily removed with a stone.

Springfield has a bad practice (in my opinion) of engraving the last three digits of the serial number on the bottom central rail of the slide. This can produce a roughness in the slide movement as the engraved stippling passes over the disconnector. This can also be smoothed out with a stone (if present).

To check, pull the hammer back and leave it cocked so as to not have to fight the hammer spring. The slide should move smoothly back and forth with just a minor "catch" as it passes over the disconnector. Should be no roughness.

Recoil springs can be a bit stiff initially, but should settle into a lower but stable tension.

Also "range" ammo tends to be a bit on the anemic side. If you couple that with maximum tension virgin springs and rough spots that managed to sneak past QC, they can all add up to failures.

Thanks for all of that good information/education! As far as magazines go, I'm going to assume the one I used was good, as it was brand new.

The breechface seems to have a slightly raised ridge on the slide stop side of the gun. Its hard to say for certain, but when I run a thumb tack across it horizontally, it catches. I can't say for sure, because the one groove butts up to where the possible ridge is. It is kind of hard to explain, so just check out the pictures again. It is either just catching in the groove, or hanging up when it tries to come up out of the groove, and runs into the ridge.

As far as the bottom on the central slide rail, it is fine. I found where they stippled the last three digits of the serial number there, and it is smooth as can be. I did, however, see another number stamped down lower in the slide, while observing the stippled number, and it hadn't been smoothed out. I didn't notice any roughness when pulling the slide back, but I did notice it catch as it moved past what I assume is the disconnector. That aspect seemed to be too "catchy" to me, before I had fired the gun, when I was trying to index the slide, so that I could remove the slide stop. Now that the gun has 150 rounds through it, that catchiness seems to have smoothed out a bit.

I don't plan on trying to smooth the breechface myself. I believe that is something that Springfield should be responsible for. I realize that is a fairly straight forward process. But with this gun being new, I feel like they should be the ones to make it right, especially considering the malfunctions that I have had with it, and the price.

 

Thanks for all of that good information/education! As far as magazines go, I'm going to assume the one I used was good, as it was brand new.

The breechface seems to have a slightly raised ridge on the slide stop side of the gun. Its hard to say for certain, but when I run a thumb tack across it horizontally, it catches. I can't say for sure, because the one groove butts up to where the possible ridge is. It is kind of hard to explain, so just check out the pictures again. It is either just catching in the groove, or hanging up when it tries to come up out of the groove, and runs into the ridge.

As far as the bottom on the central slide rail, it is fine. I found where they stippled the last three digits of the serial number there, and it is smooth as can be. I did, however, see another number stamped down lower in the slide, while observing the stippled number, and it hadn't been smoothed out. I didn't notice any roughness when pulling the slide back, but I did notice it catch as it moved past what I assume is the disconnector. That aspect seemed to be too "catchy" to me, before I had fired the gun, when I was trying to index the slide, so that I could remove the slide stop. Now that the gun has 150 rounds through it, that catchiness seems to have smoothed out a bit.

I don't plan on trying to smooth the breechface myself. I believe that is something that Springfield should be responsible for. I realize that is a fairly straight forward process. But with this gun being new, I feel like they should be the ones to make it right, especially considering the malfunctions that I have had with it, and the price.

I totally agree that Springfield should be responsible for smoothing the breechface but if you can do it your self and not go through the process of sending you new EMP 4 back to the factory that's what I would opt for. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

 

As an update, I ran 100 more rounds through the gun today, with a new magazine. I had two malfunctions. Both were failures for the slide to go all the way into battery. I shot 50 rounds of Federal 115 grain FMJ, and 50 rounds of PMC Bronze 115 grain FMJ. After having good reliability, with only one malfunction with the Federal rounds, and a new mag, I decided to try the PMC again. I had the same luck that I had with the Federal stuff. This leads me to believe that the original mag that I shot with is faulty, but I still had two more malfunctions with FMJ ammo. I am now 250 rounds in with the gun. I am still considering sending the gun back, because of the breechface, and the malfunctions experienced from what should be reliable ammo.

I would like to hear your opinions. Thanks!

 

I would also agree that Springfield should take care of an uneven breechface if that is indeed the problem. I believe these are cut vertically with a broach, and can leave vertical tooling marks. I have seen many Glocks with horrible looking vertical scoring on the breechface that had absolutely no effect on operation. Unless there is a rough ridge or burr, it should be fine.

A step or score running horizontally on the breechface would be problem; however, this is very unlikely due to the manufacturing process used.

You seem to have eliminated two of the problems with a new magazine. When the slide fails to go into battery, how close does it actually get?

If the cartridge is angled straight into the chamber, but not making the last little bit, it could be a problem with the chamber.

If the cartridge is hanging up at an angle going into the chamber, it could be a tight extracter, preventing the case head from sliding all the way up onto the breechface.

Next time you have the slide off, try pushing a cartridge up into position in the slide. The extractor tension should be enough to hold the cartridge in position but not enough as to make it difficult to push the cartridge up.

 

When the slide fails to go into battery now, all that it takes, is a small nudge with your thumb, and it finishes chambering. I didn't examine how the cartridge looked at this point, because of how easily it was to remedy the problem.

I took the slide off, and put a round into position in6 the slide, like you had suggested. I tried both a live round, and an empty case. Neither were hard to move into position. The only thing that bothered me, was when the empty case was in position, the extractor pulled on it enough, that the round didn't sit all the way flush with the breechface. You should be able to see the daylight underneath of it in the picture. Where it was not sitting flush, was on the area of the breechface I was concerned with, where there is the vertical groove, and possible minute ridge. When I put the live round into position by hand, it appears to sit perfectly flush on the breechface.

At this point, I don't know whether to put another 100 rounds or so through it, and see what happens, or to give Springfield another call. Am I being too picky? I really do love this gun, but I don't want fear of unreliableness to be stuck in the back of my head.

 

It sounds like the extractor is fine then.

The slight angle of the empty case should be of no concern, especially since the live round sits straight. Perhaps the primer is protruding slightly, and holding it off angle?

So it now all looks like it is in the chamber.

Does a live round drop all the way into the chamber with very little or no resistance? You may have some stubborn fouling in there that was never removed.

Chambers are hard to inspect due to the step in diameter where the chamber transitions into the barrel. That last little bit of chamber sits in the shadows when viewed from the chamber end, and that same little bit isn't visible at all when viewed from the muzzle end. It is also where fouling tends to accumulate as it is right at the case mouth when firing.

Make sure the barrel is dry when inspecting. Wet bore solvent can make everything look nice even when it isn't.

Another possibility is an under spec chamber. It will of course have to go back to springfield in that case, but on the bright side, it will most certainly be fixed.

 

I'd say send it back to get peace of mind of reliability.

 

It sounds to me that its time to send it back to Springfield. My experience with Springfield Customer Service has always be favorable with very decent turnaround time.

 

I haven't had time to check and see if a live round falls into the chamber easily, or not, yet. But, based on all of your recommendations, I think I will give Springfield another call this week, and see what they have to say now. I hate to be without the gun for a month or so, but you really can't put a price on peace of mind...

 

I would run another 100 rounds or so through it before sending it back. You may have a tight chamber but it may be within spec, just on the lower end of the spec. If you have a failure to go into battery, eject the cartridge and look for marks from friction / rubbing. This may just be a tight gun. I've had a few guns that were on the lower end of the chamber spec (KAHR seems to always run tight) but I reload to fit...
I have seen a few (one this week) Springfields that were so tight the slide would not go into completely into battery. I looked at an EMP this last week in a gun shop and the slide / barrel fit was so tight it would not go into battery the last 1/8" - 1/16" without a nudge from your hand.
As for the breech, I would not worry about the machine marks. Please keep in mind that SA 1911 guns are always tight and require some break in. I would not carry any gun until I have had 500-1000 rounds through it, I have seen many that need to be "loosened up" before 100% reliable function (my Kimber took a little over 1000....).

 

Well, I gave Springfield a call. After explaining to them what I have expressed here, they want to have a look at the gun. So, I will let them have the pleasure of having it. I want to say that I feel like the gun will continue to improve, the more I shoot it. So part of me wants to continue to break it in on my own, and the other part says to let them have it back for a bit, since they are so willing to take it back in. I will get it sent out in a few days, and then play the waiting game. I will post back, after I get the gun back, etc.

 

Well, I gave Springfield a call. After explaining to them what I have expressed here, they want to have a look at the gun. So, I will let them have the pleasure of having it. I want to say that I feel like the gun will continue to improve, the more I shoot it. So part of me wants to continue to break it in on my own, and the other part says to let them have it back for a bit, since they are so willing to take it back in. I will get it sent out in a few days, and then play the waiting game. I will post back, after I get the gun back, etc.

Hopefully the will not keep it too long and you will be back shooting it before you know it. I sent my EMP 3 in for feed issues and they got it back to me fairly quickly.